This reminds me of the time I was playing God Hand. The only copy I could get was a japanese one, and I played the whole game, memorising god reel actions by matching the name's first character to the respective action (all in memory). It was a VERY hard game, but I successfully beat it!
The satisfaction was so immense, that even after these many years, whenever I play a hard game, I remind myself of God Hand and make myself continue playing the game. #difficulty
It took me over a week to get around to reading this article, not sure why. But it was well worth the read. I've always wondered about the fine folks who get me through the rough spots in games, and appreciate their time and this chance to get a small glimpse into what they do. #walkthroughs
This game is frustrating, and I can't even get pass chapter one's red-eye knight. I suck, even Uncharted 2 I can only finish Very Easy, and with the unlimited ammo & slow motion cheat I still had a hard time to finish Easy. Yes, I am that bad. So for Demon's Souls, I am not going to get my $ worth. I can understand the creator's theory, but just don't understand why they don't put a Easy mode there so more people can enjoy or finish the game. People will get bored easier with easy mode ? I don't think so, I kept replaying RE4 on Wii whenever I wanted to have a good time, had a blash to relax after work, not to frustrate myself after work. Like Uncharted 2 with 5 levels of difficulty is friendly, people who love challenge can go for Crushing Mode every time, no need to look down or complain about a game with Very Easy mode. Remember, skillful players got a lot of their multiplayer points off suckers like me, just like rich people also need less educated people to do garbage run for the city. #difficulty
@jellyfish: as WarlordPayne said, the red-eyed knight isn't supposed to be fought until much later on.
It is possible to kill him early on, but for all intensive purposes, you're better off avoiding him until you've gained a few levels and better equipment... plus have familiarised yourself with the game a little more.
You won't be able to level up until you defeat the first boss, but once you do, if you sink a lot of souls into improving your health then you'll find the game a lot easier to get into.
And to get to that boss I can only suggest you explore both of the towers in area 1-1 to open the gates from the beginning of the level... it saves on the frustration of backtracking every time you die. and stay the hell away from the dragons on the cliffside unless you are a hunter with over 300 arrows! #difficulty
@exion: Its actually pretty easy to get all the equipment from the dragons lair. All you have to do is lure the fire breathing dragon out to the bridge, then hightail it to the tail whipping dragon, and pick up some items, then drop off of the cliff to your left to avoid the red dragons fire. Keep away from the items closes to the yellow dragon, save them for last. Make sure you spend all your souls - there is one item that you can't get without getting tailwhipped - although you might be able to do get it if you use the thiefs ring - but you would have to stop running at a certain point - since that negates the rings effects - and firebreather might get to you. #difficulty
@diagorus: I was saying he should avoid them for the time being... once you geet more used to the game then yeah, looting the dragon's lair and pwning the red eyed knight are fairly simple tasks, but as he's yet to clear 1-1 it implies that he's probably not yet fully familiar with the games mechanics and could probably do with getting used to it more before attempting more advanced stuff. #difficulty
@Mr.Wimples: well, in competitive games you're in an environment where every bit of experience with the game can put you further ahead of the competition... Aside from the PVP moments, games like demon-souls aren't really competitive at all.
The game is so hard when you get started that most players really appreciate all the help they can get... I know I did! When it gets to a point later on where you have gone from being the apprentice of other players to a master in your own right and you have the opportunity to help out less experienced users then you get a really awesome sense of satisfaction... like things have come full circle.
That's my take on it... or it might even be something like: people get very passionate about this kind of game and want other people to enjoy it too, so they try to reduce the early frustrations for players until the game gets it's hooks in! #difficulty
I love Demon's Souls so much. I've beat it twice so far, and all things considered, it's probably the best game I've ever played(being a huge RPG nerd.) I was wondering if something would ever edge out Planescape: Torment, but this has, despite having just the bare bones of a story.
This reminds me of what I'm playing now, God Hand. I died 10 times on the first stage alone, not to mention dying several times on the bonus challenges, but I've never once been frustrated. It's always a nice rarity to find a game that's difficult enough to kill you, mug your corpse and then piss on your grave, but not make you want to break your controller after the 10th time. #difficulty
I completely agree, difficulty is something that has been increasingly engineered out of games. You can't push a Demon's Souls to your parents who like playing Wii Sports Tennis. But there is still a huge number of players who crave the challenge of a Demon's Souls. The more I read about this game, the more I had to own it. I needed a game like this in my library.
I was actually suprised to find that I was not forced to return to my corpse naked to retrive all of my gear. I was pleasantly surpirsed to find a ring that negated half of the HP loss in soul form. The game is not just a bastard for the sake of it. The game just puts a lot on the player. It doesn't make it easy to figure out the best stuff or even which stats you need for certain weapons. It expects you to take the time to learn and do the right things, figure out what those symbols mean, the information is available, it is just not all in the easiest spots. If you can't use something you spent your souls on, well pay more attention.
I think this sense that the player controls their own destiny in the game is a big part of the draw. You know that if you go and kill a few more easy guys you can get that next stat point that might help you defeat the next boss or something. You know that if you get a few more kills you can spend your souls and go into the next area with only a few souls to lose, thus feeling safer about learning a new area.
There are just so many little bits that come together to make it a very satisfying experience. This approach to difficulty is something I can really get behind.
Games that I rent are best played on normal. I rented it to see the story or just check the gameplay out. I don't need it on hard or whatever to do that. However, a game like Demon's Souls needs to be savored. You look around and try to find everything because you know you are going to need everything you can get. This is the type of game I like owning because I want to play it, put it up, play it, put it up, etc. I don't feel like I need to play it endlessly, but I also always want to keep coming back to it.
I hope more games will offer players the challenge of learning from their failures. Gamers and people in general are better off being pushed like this. It is what really had me falling in love with games to begin with. I don't play games to unplug and unwind, I play them to plug in. Demon's Souls really forces you to plug into the game. #difficulty
Man, this article makes me want to go out and hunt down a copy now! I've known about Demon's Souls for quite some time, but haven't had the interest to pick it up yet as I'm too distracted with all the other AAA titles that have been coming out this fall. Perhaps the girlfriend might have a gift idea for me after all...she does complain that I don't give her a chance to give me a game as I always buy the ones I want most on launch day, lol #difficulty
I wouldn't say Demon's Souls is hard, rather it's punishing. Punishing in the sense that when that boss demon kills you because you didn't know what to do, you have to start the level completely over, grinding your way through the lesser baddies all the way back to the boss just to try something new (which probably won't work either), possibly losing all your souls in the process.
That's the part that makes me put the controller down saying, "Screw this game!" And then the next day, "Okay, maybe one more try..." #difficulty
@TwoLaneBlackTop: That's the thing for me... I like a hard game if it's quick. 15 minutes of Beatmania IIDX or Guitar Hero. 45 minutes of a Touhou game. If you have to invest loads of time in a game and it gleefully kills you and rekills you, that's insanely frustrating, and even if every gamer I know comes to me and says it's really fun, without trying it firsthand, that kind of thing is the opposite of a selling point.
Also... "betta wash that Snickers down wit' sum milk, foo!" #difficulty
@fuchikoma: I hear you, man. I'm not recommending this game to my friends because I can't afford to lose any friends. It's debatable whether I'm having fun playing this or if I'm just determined to beat it.
Someone needs to make Blizzard read this. Blackwing Lair > the huge ever-growing free purplz shitting loot cow.
Reducing everything to a timesink, and merging all stats (until we eventually end up with one, "pwnyness") ruined what was an exciting and addictive game, and turned it into essentially a lame, expensive 3D IRC client.
I like hard games. I also like games with intelligently designed difficulty levels that you can turn into hard games without stopping them from being playable. A game which is just an expensive bit of anime with button mashing makes me a sad kitten.
@rainofwalrus: when it first came out it was. Blizzard had a knack back then for making WoW last much longer endgame wise. it took months for people to beat mc and even a fully geared t1 raid would be hard pressed to get 3 bosses deep in BWL. Frankly, the most fun ive had in WoW was BWL. the challenge of each fight , and eventually getting down Neffarion, made my time well worth it.
@rainofwalrus: BWL was hard enough to start, and when you had noobs... AQ40, getting harder... The Original Naxx, now there was the pinnacle of hard. #difficulty
@rainofwalrus: The logistics of running a 40 player crew and knowing where your next 10 replacements were coming from because half the people didn't want to be there and were only doing it out of a sense of obligation... was the only difficult part about vanilla Naxx. Honestly, all the vanilla raids were fun (not for the officers though), but none of them were all that difficult. Sunwell prenerf was harder than the entirety of vanilla WoW raiding... In my experience, the people that convince themselves otherwise have a hard time separating nostalgia from truth.
@rainofwalrus: Yeah, Naxx was definitely harder. Sorry, I meant to agree with that, but I got worked up about the whole topic =) I was just trying to add that in vanilla days you were fighting yourselves more often than fighting the encounters. Raid organization and having people willing to work within a ruleset and at specific times were harder than every raid boss out there for 40-man raids. It was worse in the EQ days when you could field 72 player raids though. My God... talk about nightmares. #difficulty
@rainofwalrus: I played my friend's monk for him occasionally on raids. It's actually a rather fun job to be the FD puller and eyes and ears of the raid. Honestly, I miss those days sometimes. I loved my enchanter like crazy and loved pulling for my groups. Enchanter pulling was crazy fun too - a scared little cloth class with like 10k hp running from mobs that could quad at 3500 a pop and stun. Used to line that shit up like a pro and have us non-stop killing for hours. I always thought the PvE in WoW was a little stale in the small scale grouping department compared to EQ. I'd chill for hours with a group of friends just killing and doin crazy shit. Explorin, pulling crazy rooms (aggro radii and shit, no canned adventure linear dungeons here), training to zone, finding camp spots near named spawns, spawn stealing... I could go on forever probably. All that shit is just non-existent in WoW and it's kind of sad. #difficulty
@Senpuu: preaching to the choir. Blizzard set out to "fix" everything that was hardcore about EQ: no XP-loss, no kill-stealing, instanced dungeons, "!" quest givers, and so on. But I recently tried playing EQ to max again with some friends and was completely spoiled by WOW--couldn't even get past lvl 20 before going back to WOW. #difficulty
I hate hard games :( I guess its hard to admit as i've been playing since I was about 5 on my brothers Rowtron (oh yeah, nothing but pong baby) but i'm absolutely rubbish at games.
Still, my copy of demons souls is in the mail (had to order from the colonies). #difficulty
@Blore07: A guide in one step to becoming a better gamer:
Keep playing harder games!
No, seriously. The first time I played Super Mario Bros., I couldn't make it past the first level. It took me weeks to surmount that which I thought of the time of as an ENORMOUS challenge.
SMB on the NES was the first game I can remember playing.
Then I got a gameboy a few years later with three games - Turtles 2, Metroid 2 and Battletoads. I finished Turtles in like a month, and proceeded to try and try and try and TRY again at Metroid 2 and Battletoads for years and years.
I only recently finished Metroid 2 (holy shit, that game was HARD!), and I still haven't finished Battletoads, and now my old GameBoy is broken and the start button on my GBC doesn't work, so I can't keep trying.
Well, I guess I'll probably emulate it some day just because I'm a sucker for punishment. #difficulty
@Blore07: I'm not big on hard games either. I don't mind if there's a super-ridiculously-blindingly-hard... difficulty level for those who want it, but give those of us who just want to enjoy the story and game you've crafted a reasonable difficulty level. I'm looking at you Dissidia. #difficulty
Meh, i would like to see some money on games with shitty gameplay like kakuto chojin or some unknown fighter game; also i do not understand how can someone bet on any smash brothers, because with all that crap that occurs in the levels and with random items, sometimes it is more a matter of luck and less of skills #fightinggames
@queso_plas:
You can turn items off and generally what happens in the level happens in a sequence. The Ice climbers level is a typical advantage of this as it goes through a clear transition and reset cycle.
Plus you can always play on Final Destination which is a flat featureless level devoid of everything. In Brawl you can even create your own.
Fun fact: on the ice climbers level if you jump to the right height at the right time you can stay airborne off screen for the entire trip from the top of the mountain to the bottom. #fightinggames
This is one of those great articles where you get a few paragraphs in and immediately want to talk about your experiences.
The advent of achievement points, etc., has made it hard for me to play or even enjoy news about games on consoles which have them, unless I think I can hit about 800 of 1000 achievement points. I rarely can, it turns out, and I tuck my tail between my legs in game discussions anymore since when it comes time to measuring gamerscore, mine's a little green nubbin. What's worse, with this generation, my memories of success boil down to subtitle reading -- I beat the... whatever it was, and got 80G. Remember those points pretty well. Then another 20G for something else, stacked on top. Good story for the blog? Any other imagery is overwhelmed by my hand memory of accessing a pause-menu map. Over and over.
My son and I play 360 together, and I have found myself rejecting most titles for perceived gamerscore difficulty. He gets bummed out when I accidentally unlock things that he cannot, and telling him that simply enjoying the game is the point just doesn't match what the game is telling him, or any other media lately. I don't much the line myself, especially as I literally rack up points against him, or his profile, or whatever. It's like a dad telling his kid it's okay to strike out when dad is out there knocking them out of the park in the same little league team -- sometimes the opposite team -- knowing that even when the kid does knock out one or two, he has 18 more to go before the scoreboard acknowledges it.
Non-points-related: I admit that with age I am more and more turned off by any sort of difficulty in a video game, despite loving challenges in the general sense. Some people take on insane, life-changing challenges because pass or fail, they embrace the experience it will provide. Some take on those challenges having no idea that's what they are. Superficial challenges are far less life-changing, but also less satisfying regardless of outcome -- unless compared to the amount of risk avoided by taking real challenges. I mean, not to go on and on. Serious challenges become risks become failures, fears and depression -- and we avoid them, or replace them with the far safer and comparatively better superficial ones, like increasing the followers on our blog or getting all the headshot achievements this weekend. I'm not enjoying that sort of thing lately. Which is not to say I spend one minute less on addictive gaming.
The combat system, to me is what makes DS so great. The game itself is "easy" to me. It was challenging for the first 2 hours or so but once I figured how all the controls and how to fight properly...it's all about observing the enemy and looking for an opening.Which isn't hard. #difficulty
Demon's Souls biggest achievement is that it appeals to gamers who don't normally like difficult games.
It turned me into a glutton for punishment, something even the best old school games didn't do.
It's not about repetition, pattern memorisation and mad skills. It's about strategy, something that even an "old" gamer with little-to-no patience for frustrating difficulty can appreciate. :D #difficulty
@Antiterra: +5 Quality Mirdan Hammer, what difficulty? Use this weapon in 2 hands while keep a kight shield or dark silver shield around for spears and range attack make the game infinitely easier.
Of course in that is in Demon Soul's term of easy and found after countless trails and mostly errors. But like you have have nothing but good things to say about the game even with its pulverizing difficulty.
The only thing I absolutely hate about the game is that once you missed a scripted event, for e.g. kill the blue dragon and before rescuing Biorr and he will vanish into thin air. You will never see demonbrand if you dont baby Ostrava each time you visit 1-1 1-2 1-3. And lastly should you slay a vendor by mistake (did a bad aoe attack at 2-2) you are screwed for the play through. Have all this happen to you in one sitting is not the greatest of moments.
In the end a fan-bloodly-tastic game, absolute classic game and so far hands down my pick rpg of the year. But would I recommend it to anyone I know? No... not unless they know what they are getting themselves into. #difficulty
@Antiterra: Yeah I don't even have enough world tendency to even get to him to worry about him murdering the entire nexus. Argh... new game + here I come, curse you anal scripted events curse you! #difficulty
@Antiterra: Exactly. Demon Souls was appealing to me because I honestly did feel that failure in the game came from my own actions. This is the kind of hard game I enjoy.
I wish more developers would take this approach once in a while. Demon's Souls gets it right. It's not like say Monster Hunter on the PSP, where the terrible control scheme and camera control frequently lead me to my death as opposed to using the wrong strategy. #difficulty
11/02/09
The satisfaction was so immense, that even after these many years, whenever I play a hard game, I remind myself of God Hand and make myself continue playing the game. #difficulty
11/01/09
10/31/09
10/31/09
It is possible to kill him early on, but for all intensive purposes, you're better off avoiding him until you've gained a few levels and better equipment... plus have familiarised yourself with the game a little more.
You won't be able to level up until you defeat the first boss, but once you do, if you sink a lot of souls into improving your health then you'll find the game a lot easier to get into.
And to get to that boss I can only suggest you explore both of the towers in area 1-1 to open the gates from the beginning of the level... it saves on the frustration of backtracking every time you die. and stay the hell away from the dragons on the cliffside unless you are a hunter with over 300 arrows! #difficulty
11/01/09
I'm not going to make a big deal, but the phrase isn't "intensive purposes" it is "intents and purposes". ;) #difficulty
11/01/09
11/01/09
11/01/09
11/01/09
11/02/09
The game is so hard when you get started that most players really appreciate all the help they can get... I know I did! When it gets to a point later on where you have gone from being the apprentice of other players to a master in your own right and you have the opportunity to help out less experienced users then you get a really awesome sense of satisfaction... like things have come full circle.
That's my take on it... or it might even be something like: people get very passionate about this kind of game and want other people to enjoy it too, so they try to reduce the early frustrations for players until the game gets it's hooks in! #difficulty
10/30/09
10/30/09
10/30/09
I completely agree, difficulty is something that has been increasingly engineered out of games. You can't push a Demon's Souls to your parents who like playing Wii Sports Tennis. But there is still a huge number of players who crave the challenge of a Demon's Souls. The more I read about this game, the more I had to own it. I needed a game like this in my library.
I was actually suprised to find that I was not forced to return to my corpse naked to retrive all of my gear. I was pleasantly surpirsed to find a ring that negated half of the HP loss in soul form. The game is not just a bastard for the sake of it. The game just puts a lot on the player. It doesn't make it easy to figure out the best stuff or even which stats you need for certain weapons. It expects you to take the time to learn and do the right things, figure out what those symbols mean, the information is available, it is just not all in the easiest spots. If you can't use something you spent your souls on, well pay more attention.
I think this sense that the player controls their own destiny in the game is a big part of the draw. You know that if you go and kill a few more easy guys you can get that next stat point that might help you defeat the next boss or something. You know that if you get a few more kills you can spend your souls and go into the next area with only a few souls to lose, thus feeling safer about learning a new area.
There are just so many little bits that come together to make it a very satisfying experience. This approach to difficulty is something I can really get behind.
Games that I rent are best played on normal. I rented it to see the story or just check the gameplay out. I don't need it on hard or whatever to do that. However, a game like Demon's Souls needs to be savored. You look around and try to find everything because you know you are going to need everything you can get. This is the type of game I like owning because I want to play it, put it up, play it, put it up, etc. I don't feel like I need to play it endlessly, but I also always want to keep coming back to it.
I hope more games will offer players the challenge of learning from their failures. Gamers and people in general are better off being pushed like this. It is what really had me falling in love with games to begin with. I don't play games to unplug and unwind, I play them to plug in. Demon's Souls really forces you to plug into the game. #difficulty
10/30/09
10/30/09
That's the part that makes me put the controller down saying, "Screw this game!" And then the next day, "Okay, maybe one more try..." #difficulty
10/30/09
MMmmmmmmm.....snickers. #difficulty
10/30/09
10/30/09
Also... "betta wash that Snickers down wit' sum milk, foo!" #difficulty
10/30/09
Mr T pities the obsessive-compulsive.
10/30/09
Reducing everything to a timesink, and merging all stats (until we eventually end up with one, "pwnyness") ruined what was an exciting and addictive game, and turned it into essentially a lame, expensive 3D IRC client.
I like hard games. I also like games with intelligently designed difficulty levels that you can turn into hard games without stopping them from being playable. A game which is just an expensive bit of anime with button mashing makes me a sad kitten.
10/30/09
10/30/09
10/30/09
10/30/09
10/30/09
11/02/09
11/02/09
11/02/09
11/02/09
11/02/09
11/03/09
10/30/09
Still, my copy of demons souls is in the mail (had to order from the colonies). #difficulty
10/30/09
Keep playing harder games!
No, seriously. The first time I played Super Mario Bros., I couldn't make it past the first level. It took me weeks to surmount that which I thought of the time of as an ENORMOUS challenge.
SMB on the NES was the first game I can remember playing.
Then I got a gameboy a few years later with three games - Turtles 2, Metroid 2 and Battletoads. I finished Turtles in like a month, and proceeded to try and try and try and TRY again at Metroid 2 and Battletoads for years and years.
I only recently finished Metroid 2 (holy shit, that game was HARD!), and I still haven't finished Battletoads, and now my old GameBoy is broken and the start button on my GBC doesn't work, so I can't keep trying.
Well, I guess I'll probably emulate it some day just because I'm a sucker for punishment. #difficulty
10/30/09
10/30/09
I dont like easy games, but I always think "Normal" mode is how the developer would want it.
in my head normal is the base, and from their its made easier or harder to fulfil requirements of other difficulty levels. #difficulty
10/30/09
10/30/09
You can turn items off and generally what happens in the level happens in a sequence. The Ice climbers level is a typical advantage of this as it goes through a clear transition and reset cycle.
Plus you can always play on Final Destination which is a flat featureless level devoid of everything. In Brawl you can even create your own.
Fun fact: on the ice climbers level if you jump to the right height at the right time you can stay airborne off screen for the entire trip from the top of the mountain to the bottom. #fightinggames
10/30/09
The advent of achievement points, etc., has made it hard for me to play or even enjoy news about games on consoles which have them, unless I think I can hit about 800 of 1000 achievement points. I rarely can, it turns out, and I tuck my tail between my legs in game discussions anymore since when it comes time to measuring gamerscore, mine's a little green nubbin. What's worse, with this generation, my memories of success boil down to subtitle reading -- I beat the... whatever it was, and got 80G. Remember those points pretty well. Then another 20G for something else, stacked on top. Good story for the blog? Any other imagery is overwhelmed by my hand memory of accessing a pause-menu map. Over and over.
My son and I play 360 together, and I have found myself rejecting most titles for perceived gamerscore difficulty. He gets bummed out when I accidentally unlock things that he cannot, and telling him that simply enjoying the game is the point just doesn't match what the game is telling him, or any other media lately. I don't much the line myself, especially as I literally rack up points against him, or his profile, or whatever. It's like a dad telling his kid it's okay to strike out when dad is out there knocking them out of the park in the same little league team -- sometimes the opposite team -- knowing that even when the kid does knock out one or two, he has 18 more to go before the scoreboard acknowledges it.
Non-points-related: I admit that with age I am more and more turned off by any sort of difficulty in a video game, despite loving challenges in the general sense. Some people take on insane, life-changing challenges because pass or fail, they embrace the experience it will provide. Some take on those challenges having no idea that's what they are. Superficial challenges are far less life-changing, but also less satisfying regardless of outcome -- unless compared to the amount of risk avoided by taking real challenges. I mean, not to go on and on. Serious challenges become risks become failures, fears and depression -- and we avoid them, or replace them with the far safer and comparatively better superficial ones, like increasing the followers on our blog or getting all the headshot achievements this weekend. I'm not enjoying that sort of thing lately. Which is not to say I spend one minute less on addictive gaming.
10/29/09
10/29/09
Caucasian Install sounds so lame.
Ooooh. Maybe I can get one that says "Canadia Install" #fightinggames
10/30/09
Eh? #fightinggames
10/29/09
It turned me into a glutton for punishment, something even the best old school games didn't do.
It's not about repetition, pattern memorisation and mad skills. It's about strategy, something that even an "old" gamer with little-to-no patience for frustrating difficulty can appreciate. :D #difficulty
10/29/09
Of course in that is in Demon Soul's term of easy and found after countless trails and mostly errors. But like you have have nothing but good things to say about the game even with its pulverizing difficulty.
The only thing I absolutely hate about the game is that once you missed a scripted event, for e.g. kill the blue dragon and before rescuing Biorr and he will vanish into thin air. You will never see demonbrand if you dont baby Ostrava each time you visit 1-1 1-2 1-3. And lastly should you slay a vendor by mistake (did a bad aoe attack at 2-2) you are screwed for the play through. Have all this happen to you in one sitting is not the greatest of moments.
In the end a fan-bloodly-tastic game, absolute classic game and so far hands down my pick rpg of the year. But would I recommend it to anyone I know? No... not unless they know what they are getting themselves into. #difficulty
10/29/09
(Not recommended.) #difficulty
10/30/09
10/30/09
I wish more developers would take this approach once in a while. Demon's Souls gets it right. It's not like say Monster Hunter on the PSP, where the terrible control scheme and camera control frequently lead me to my death as opposed to using the wrong strategy. #difficulty